Anna Sawai on her Emmy win for Shogun, Naomi’s ‘Pachinko’ Heartbreak

SPOILER ALERT: The following interview contains spoilers from “Chapter Fourteen,” this week’s episode of “Pachinko,” now streaming on AppleTV+.

“It was a very good week,” said a smiling Anna Sawai on Thursday after her historic win at the Emmys. After winning an Emmy for lead actress in a drama — for her role as Toda Mariko in FX’s “Shōgun” — she became the first actor of Asian descent to ever win in the category, one of a record-breaking 18 trophies for the dramas. first season.

But New Zealand-born Sawai only had a limited time to enjoy that Emmys high: She had to report back to work in Australia, where she speaks with Variety via Zoom while filming Season 2 of the Apple TV+ series “Monarch: Legacy of Monsters.” in which she plays the lead role of Cate Randa (alongside Godzilla, of course).

However, it is her other series we’re talking about today, as Sawai is also a cast member in creator Soo Hugh’s period drama ‘Pachinko’, which is currently airing its second season on Apple TV+. In the series’ 1980s timeline, Sawai plays ambitious businesswoman Naomi Ichizaki, who is currently dating co-worker Solomon Baek (Jin Ha), but we see their romance hit a major snag in this week’s episode.

Here, Sawai talks about her win at the Emmys and provides insight into this week’s episode “Pachinko” — and discusses how playing Naomi has shown her what her own mother endured in the business world decades ago.

I I have to ask you some Emmy questions because it’s obviously very new. How do you feel now, a few days later?

It feels surreal. I don’t think I’ll ever get over the fact that our show made history. I know it happened, but it’s such a big thing. When we started shooting, I didn’t expect this to happen. And when people started talking and I got nominated, I thought, “That can’t possibly happen!” Life is so strange.

There was a lot of talk about the fact that you cried so much before your name was called. Is that just who you are, or can you just not keep it in?

I feel like everyone who knows me in my personal life has seen me cry. I get very emotional, but I wasn’t crying because I felt like it was going to happen or anything like that – I was crying before the day even happened. When I met Kathy Bates, I cried my eyes out because she complimented me. I also think it was just nervous, and it was my first nomination. I was just overwhelmed, I guess.

After the show there are all the parties, but did you wear the statue the entire time? I know it’s kind of heavy, and it’s big!

For every party I went to, I held it. I don’t know why I did that, but my team said, ‘No, just walk in with it. People will be happy to see you holding it.” And so I did. Now I feel like my right arm is much bigger than my left because I was holding it all night.

Which parties have you attended?

The one I stayed with the longest was the FX version. So we had all the FX people and all the show people. It was fun to celebrate everyone’s work together.

Tell me about the whole awards campaign, it’s a lot of work. Ultimately you are Do you want to build a bond with one of your fellow players through all this?

Yes, Nava Mau from ‘Baby Reindeer’, we’ve met a few times. It was just nice to see someone who was also experiencing it for the first time. And then I also met Ayo Edebiri, and I think she went through something similar and is now at a different stage. She may be a few years ahead of what I’m experiencing, and she gave me some advice. She knew exactly what I was feeling and how strange but also wonderful this is and what I should pay attention to. Just very genuine, and I had a very good relationship with her.

Between “Shōgun,” “Pachinko,” and “Monarch,” these are all really big shows with big concepts. Is that by design, or is it just the way things fell?

Maybe my team was a little more tactful, but I never went into it thinking, “Oh, this is good because of this and that.” It was just reading the scripts, talking to the showrunners and feeling if I connected to the character or not. What I like is that they are all so different, but they are also so important to me because they allow the audience to see Asian people in a different light. For “Monarch,” which I’m working on now, I’m playing a Japanese-American person, who I’ve never played before.

“Shōgun” is what it is, and “Pachinko” was the first time I was able to really learn about my mother’s generation and how it was treated in the business world. Soo has a character like Naomi [who is Japanese] if it’s a story about a Korean immigrant family, that meant a lot to me. And she was so helpful in telling that feminine struggle that we all know. I’m just grateful that I’ve had the opportunity to tell our story in multiple different ways.

And your character in “Pachinko” doesn’t appear in Min Jin Lee’s novel, right? She was made for the series?

Yes, Soo created a character because she felt it was important to talk about Japanese women at that time.

How important is Naomi and Solomon’s relationship to her, considering her career is also a priority for her – but we see them clash in this week’s episode?

It’s incredibly important because for her he’s the only male figure who understands where she’s coming from, even if what they want is different and the way they do things in their business is different. They have mutual respect and understanding for each other – because they are both misfits. Naomi is a woman in a male-dominated industry. He’s Korean and she’s Japanese in Japan, so I think they can feel each other’s pain. And so they bond in that way.

But it’s hard because Naomi’s family wants something different for her, because they are from an older generation. They don’t understand the bond between Koreans and Japanese. They’re on opposite sides, so she’s trying to navigate that, and it’s hard because it’s her family. She wants her family to want what she wants, and she can’t just push them away. Solomon doesn’t understand what she’s going through. He expects her, I think, to choose one or the other. It’s very heartbreaking to see them fall apart because I think the way they look at each other is so genuine. But everything else pulls them away from each other.

But his timing isn’t great either because he ends things with her and then immediately asks her to call in this loan, which she isn’t going to do. Do you think she would have had a different reaction if the timing had been different?

I don’t believe she would have reacted differently because he gives her information that is new to her and she sees his true colors. Whether their relationship was personally good or not, she would still have been shocked to learn what he had done and what he was asking for. The timing is strange, but I think at that moment he thought, ‘I don’t care anymore. That is what is important to me now.” I speak for Solomon, and I don’t know what Jin is going to say about it, but what matters to Solomon are these things. He just didn’t care anymore.

So now I am worried about her. How big is this going to be personally and professionally?

We see how cruel business and industry are to women. Women have to be perfect. To be in the same position, they have to be twice as better than men. They have to spend twice as much time to get there, and if they make one mistake, it’s over for them. Whereas if this was a man, they would get a second chance. And so we see how unfair society is towards women.

It’s only been forty years, but when I hear the stories of my mother and her friends, it seems like they were treated a certain way and expected to behave a certain way. It just makes me so frustrated. Soo does a great job of making it feel real, and because of those struggles, we’re here now and we can fight them more. But those women had to put up with everything.

The costumes in the show – by costume designer Kyunghwa Chae – are fantastic. I know everyone is talking about the “Shōgun” wardrobe, but can you talk about your wardrobe in “Pachinko?” Naomi gets to wear some really stylish business suits.

I mean, she’s a woman in the ’80s, so we wanted to do the shoulder pads and stuff – but we didn’t want her to be the typical flashy figure for the men. There was a time when we decided to take it a little above the knee, and then way above the knee – but then we ended up just above the knee because we didn’t want her to sell her sexuality in the office, because that’s not her not at all. It was conscious to choose these professional outfits. I got to wear a few Chanel suits, which is great. The wardrobe is also something that shows her personality and is very professional. Outside the office we see her wearing some cute outfits that are not the Naomi we know in the office.

I have to mention how fun the opening scene of “Pachinko” is. By the way, I never skip them.

Never. It’s just fun because I wasn’t part of the intro to the first season. I had a lot of questions, like, “Should I dance like Naomi, or should I just dance as myself?” And they said, “Just be yourself, because Naomi wouldn’t dance all the way, with a big smile and twirling around.” It was fun to be on set and allow myself to just have fun with everyone.

One last Emmy question before we wrap this up. Do you already have an idea where the statue will be placed in your home?

I don’t know, because I don’t actually have a perfect place for it. I should get a shelf where I can put my other award because I was at the TCA Awards and I got one so I have at least two to put on that shelf. Once I get back to Japan, I’ll probably try to figure out what I want to do.

Japan is home, right?

Tokyo and the United States. I go back and forth so much that I can’t say one or the other. But my family is in Tokyo, so I like to go there when I’m not working and spend as much time as possible with my mother.

Me too know that you have a singing background early in your career. Will we see you in roles where you will sing? Because it just seems like a no-brainer, but…

I’m not very confident in singing, so someone would really have to make me feel like I can do it. But because I do have experience in the music industry, I know there is a very interesting story to tell. I might want to be part of a movie musical.

It seems like they are remaking “A Star Is Born” often, so you can make the next version!

‘A Star Is Born’, like doing it after Lady Gaga? No, I could never do that. But hey, you can dream.

This interview has been edited and condensed.